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	<title>Comments on: Church of the Disabled:  Good idea?</title>
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	<description>Reflections on the sovereignty of God over disability, disease and suffering, for God&#039;s glory and for our good.</description>
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		<title>By: Tammy A</title>
		<link>http://theworksofgod.com/2009/10/09/church-of-the-disabled/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tammy A]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I am so interested in the discussion here.  I am a person with a disability myself.  Because my disability is only phyical Cerebral Palsy) and I can freely go in and out of most churches...the issue of where I worship is not affected.
However, for seven years now I have served with Handi*Vangelism Ministries Intl. and am now working daily with others who have various disabilities.
If I understand both perspectives of Jeff and Steve here I think that they are not necessarily saying that what Don is doing is wrong per se...just that it is not best and what the church should ultimatly look like.  I so agree on this point!  I personally would hate it if someone told me that because of my disability I had to go to this church or specifically in this room because this is the room for those with disabilities.  I have been greatly blessed by my interation with others with disabilites and they have taught me much about the Body of Christ and my walk with Jesus, but I am also blessed by interation with those we call &quot;normal&quot;. and desire to interact with everyone in the Body for mutual strenghtening and encouragement.
Hopefully, Don&#039;s church will attract more people without disabilities(as most say) such as Sue above... and then it will become a church were everyone worships God together.
And by the way, I am really wrestling recently with the idea of catagorizing people...those with disabilities are here.  Those with mental health issues here...those who are divorced here...the list goes on and on.  Are we all not people who have needs and weeknesses and struggles.  Must we put people in a box according to what the have or what they experienced in their lives?  What would Jesus do if He were here and saw all of our needs?  Just some thoughts that I have not come to a conclusion on.  I just want to learn to see everyone with the eyes of JESUS.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so interested in the discussion here.  I am a person with a disability myself.  Because my disability is only phyical Cerebral Palsy) and I can freely go in and out of most churches&#8230;the issue of where I worship is not affected.<br />
However, for seven years now I have served with Handi*Vangelism Ministries Intl. and am now working daily with others who have various disabilities.<br />
If I understand both perspectives of Jeff and Steve here I think that they are not necessarily saying that what Don is doing is wrong per se&#8230;just that it is not best and what the church should ultimatly look like.  I so agree on this point!  I personally would hate it if someone told me that because of my disability I had to go to this church or specifically in this room because this is the room for those with disabilities.  I have been greatly blessed by my interation with others with disabilites and they have taught me much about the Body of Christ and my walk with Jesus, but I am also blessed by interation with those we call &#8220;normal&#8221;. and desire to interact with everyone in the Body for mutual strenghtening and encouragement.<br />
Hopefully, Don&#8217;s church will attract more people without disabilities(as most say) such as Sue above&#8230; and then it will become a church were everyone worships God together.<br />
And by the way, I am really wrestling recently with the idea of catagorizing people&#8230;those with disabilities are here.  Those with mental health issues here&#8230;those who are divorced here&#8230;the list goes on and on.  Are we all not people who have needs and weeknesses and struggles.  Must we put people in a box according to what the have or what they experienced in their lives?  What would Jesus do if He were here and saw all of our needs?  Just some thoughts that I have not come to a conclusion on.  I just want to learn to see everyone with the eyes of JESUS.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue Hume</title>
		<link>http://theworksofgod.com/2009/10/09/church-of-the-disabled/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sue Hume]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theworksofgod.com/?p=429#comment-64</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the perfect world, children and adults with disabilities would be welcomed in every church. But sadly they are not.

I have attended one of Don Anderson&#039;s weekly services and was moved by the joy and fellowship I saw in the people who attended. They worshipped freely according to their individual abilities in a manner that would not be tolerated in typical Sunday services. Most of them came with parents and caregivers who also heard the Word.

I strongly disagree with Dr. McNair. Don Anderson is bringing the Gospel to those who aren&#039;t able to hear it any other way. As a mother of teenagers with intellectual disabilities, I hope there will be a &quot;Don Anderson&quot; in their lives when I&#039;m no longer around.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the perfect world, children and adults with disabilities would be welcomed in every church. But sadly they are not.</p>
<p>I have attended one of Don Anderson&#8217;s weekly services and was moved by the joy and fellowship I saw in the people who attended. They worshipped freely according to their individual abilities in a manner that would not be tolerated in typical Sunday services. Most of them came with parents and caregivers who also heard the Word.</p>
<p>I strongly disagree with Dr. McNair. Don Anderson is bringing the Gospel to those who aren&#8217;t able to hear it any other way. As a mother of teenagers with intellectual disabilities, I hope there will be a &#8220;Don Anderson&#8221; in their lives when I&#8217;m no longer around.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff McNair</title>
		<link>http://theworksofgod.com/2009/10/09/church-of-the-disabled/#comment-63</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff McNair]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theworksofgod.com/?p=429#comment-63</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve,
I ran across you post on Twitter, &quot;Church of the disabled good idea&quot; and found your perspective interesting.  Thanks for your thoughtful post.  

I can&#039;t tell you how long I have been waiting for people in the church to even want to have the dialogue you describe.  I have been trying to awaken churches to the presence of persons with disabilities in the community for many years.  

As a special educator, I am aware of the progress that has been made in the secular society in the integration of persons with various disabilities.  The secular society has clearly led the way in this area, at least in the last 40 years or so.  You must understand that the model proposed in these segregated churches is something that was abandoned by the secular world perhaps 30 years ago.  Those in disability fields would not celebrate a segregated church.  In reality they would shake their heads at its inappropriateness in modern times.  It is not that I care necessarily what the secular world thinks, however, should we not be leading the way in loving and caring for people, not doing things that even the secular world would think uncaring?  You need only visit your public school, or talk to public school teachers to understand that the secular society has moved to inclusive practices for persons with various disabilities (intellectual disabilities in this case), in spite of the fact that their programs are largely built around the delivery of knowlege.  

Churches on the contrary, are supposedly built around notions of faith development, and perhaps one of the best ways to develop faith in people is to have people in need around those who have the potential to meet need but are either unaware at best or uncaring at worst relative to those needs.  Those who would segregate people with disabilities do favors neither those with disabilities nor those without disabilities.  Rather they remove responsibility for one&#039;s neighbor from the rank and file church member, and they communicate that those with disabilities do not belong with the rest of us.  They also imply that they have nothing to offer those without disabilitie which I find really offensive.  Particularly in light of Bible passages like 1 Corinthians 12:22.  This passage tells me that &quot;those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensible.&quot;  So, I take those parts of the Body of Christ which are arguably indispensable, and remove them from the Body, and put them over there?  Take them away from the rest of the body?  Why would I think that that would be a good thing to do?  It is unbiblical, and reveals more about who I am then it does about who those individuals with disabilities are.

So to me it is tragic that we celebrate people who are taking us in the absolute wrong direction from a Biblical perspective.  I also think your choice between doing nothing and doing the wrong thing also does not help.  Jesus was very clear in Mark 7 when he said, &quot;You let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men&quot; (v 8) and then &quot;Thus you nullify the word of God by your traditions that you have handed down.  And you do many things like that&quot; (v 13).  The reason that people feel they need segregated churches is that for people to be present in integrated churches would imply that we need to change our traditions.  As Jesus said, we would prefer to keep our traditions and reject the word of God.  Solutions which reject the word of God are not solutions for the Christian.

McNair]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,<br />
I ran across you post on Twitter, &#8220;Church of the disabled good idea&#8221; and found your perspective interesting.  Thanks for your thoughtful post.  </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t tell you how long I have been waiting for people in the church to even want to have the dialogue you describe.  I have been trying to awaken churches to the presence of persons with disabilities in the community for many years.  </p>
<p>As a special educator, I am aware of the progress that has been made in the secular society in the integration of persons with various disabilities.  The secular society has clearly led the way in this area, at least in the last 40 years or so.  You must understand that the model proposed in these segregated churches is something that was abandoned by the secular world perhaps 30 years ago.  Those in disability fields would not celebrate a segregated church.  In reality they would shake their heads at its inappropriateness in modern times.  It is not that I care necessarily what the secular world thinks, however, should we not be leading the way in loving and caring for people, not doing things that even the secular world would think uncaring?  You need only visit your public school, or talk to public school teachers to understand that the secular society has moved to inclusive practices for persons with various disabilities (intellectual disabilities in this case), in spite of the fact that their programs are largely built around the delivery of knowlege.  </p>
<p>Churches on the contrary, are supposedly built around notions of faith development, and perhaps one of the best ways to develop faith in people is to have people in need around those who have the potential to meet need but are either unaware at best or uncaring at worst relative to those needs.  Those who would segregate people with disabilities do favors neither those with disabilities nor those without disabilities.  Rather they remove responsibility for one&#8217;s neighbor from the rank and file church member, and they communicate that those with disabilities do not belong with the rest of us.  They also imply that they have nothing to offer those without disabilitie which I find really offensive.  Particularly in light of Bible passages like 1 Corinthians 12:22.  This passage tells me that &#8220;those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensible.&#8221;  So, I take those parts of the Body of Christ which are arguably indispensable, and remove them from the Body, and put them over there?  Take them away from the rest of the body?  Why would I think that that would be a good thing to do?  It is unbiblical, and reveals more about who I am then it does about who those individuals with disabilities are.</p>
<p>So to me it is tragic that we celebrate people who are taking us in the absolute wrong direction from a Biblical perspective.  I also think your choice between doing nothing and doing the wrong thing also does not help.  Jesus was very clear in Mark 7 when he said, &#8220;You let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men&#8221; (v 8) and then &#8220;Thus you nullify the word of God by your traditions that you have handed down.  And you do many things like that&#8221; (v 13).  The reason that people feel they need segregated churches is that for people to be present in integrated churches would imply that we need to change our traditions.  As Jesus said, we would prefer to keep our traditions and reject the word of God.  Solutions which reject the word of God are not solutions for the Christian.</p>
<p>McNair</p>
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		<title>By: John Knight</title>
		<link>http://theworksofgod.com/2009/10/09/church-of-the-disabled/#comment-62</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Knight]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[That was a helpful word you provided that father!  And now you&#039;ve provided it for me.  Thanks for sharing it, Steve.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was a helpful word you provided that father!  And now you&#8217;ve provided it for me.  Thanks for sharing it, Steve.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Steve Burchett</title>
		<link>http://theworksofgod.com/2009/10/09/church-of-the-disabled/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Burchett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theworksofgod.com/?p=429#comment-61</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear John:

Thanks for sharing about this. I eagerly anticipate and thoroughly enjoy your thoughts on these issues.

I agree with you that this whole issue is in fact a wake-up call to the church. Interestingly, I received an email this week from a father who was struggling through family worship with his family because their child with special needs is quite disruptive, causing the other children to lose their focus. I tried to encourage him to keep plugging away, and that his and his wife&#039;s patience would preach powerfully to their children about the patience and grace and love of God in Christ. I also shared with him that, in a sense, his children are at a great advantage because, when his family gathers together for family worship, they regularly get to see a picture of what a local church should look like. In other words, the church is not just for the same types of people, but it is a diverse group of people with different looks, needs, levels of maturity, and abilities. Granted, the family gathered at home is not a local church, but I was just speaking of the picture.

Thanks again, brother. I hope this important conversation continues for a lifetime, and that God turns our ideas and desires into realities.

Warmly and for God&#039;s Glory,
Steve]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear John:</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing about this. I eagerly anticipate and thoroughly enjoy your thoughts on these issues.</p>
<p>I agree with you that this whole issue is in fact a wake-up call to the church. Interestingly, I received an email this week from a father who was struggling through family worship with his family because their child with special needs is quite disruptive, causing the other children to lose their focus. I tried to encourage him to keep plugging away, and that his and his wife&#8217;s patience would preach powerfully to their children about the patience and grace and love of God in Christ. I also shared with him that, in a sense, his children are at a great advantage because, when his family gathers together for family worship, they regularly get to see a picture of what a local church should look like. In other words, the church is not just for the same types of people, but it is a diverse group of people with different looks, needs, levels of maturity, and abilities. Granted, the family gathered at home is not a local church, but I was just speaking of the picture.</p>
<p>Thanks again, brother. I hope this important conversation continues for a lifetime, and that God turns our ideas and desires into realities.</p>
<p>Warmly and for God&#8217;s Glory,<br />
Steve</p>
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